cindy paulson interview

Your email address will not be published. How do you feel about the final film now that youve seen it? No matter what her husband did, even after hed been arrested and jailed for rape, she remained by her husbands side. Survivor Cindy, who is a married mother of three today. As of 5:30 Saturday afternoon theres a new article available. Growing up Robert was scrawny, he had this terrible stutter, and a super bad case of acne; all of this made him the target of bullies everywhere. You rarely see mention of them, other than the fact that they existed, and I read through multiple articles before I even spotted Mrs. Hansens first name. In the film inspired by true events, Hudgens character forms an unlikely partnership with Alaska State Trooper, Sgt. CINDY: It was about maybe four in the morning, three-thirty in the morning. It just felt (inaudible) and he pulled the gun out and that time he had handcuffs on my hands and I couldnt get the door open. FLOTHE: And then he contacted you on Saturday. He would abduct the women and take them to remote places outside the city, sometimes driving them and other times he would fly his private plane. Can you tell us how that all came about? CINDY: About eleven, eleven-thirty. FLOTHE: Friday morning. CINDY: On Fourth and Denali. * I would like to talk about Roberts wife, Darla, and their two children for a minute. FLOTHE: Did he give you change? And he had pulled out his wallet and showed me a whole bunch of money Brown and Caldwell's former Chief Technical Officer Cindy Paulson understands that for Balance and Belonging to thrive, employees need to be who they truly are. Darla had known that shed married a dedicated hunter, so when Robert had taken time away from the family, it was easy to explain away. CINDY: Uh huh. CINDY: Because when I drove past the house there was a sign that said Dead End. "He will not be missed," said Frank Rothschild, the assistant district attorney who tried the case. Its going to have to be a little bit vague on that. And it was just the usual chitchat, you know, asking, you know, got in the car and asked, how you doing and so forth and whether I was looking for a good time and so forth. I was surprised that I could do it and then go home and be able to feel removed from it. In 2007 his multi-billion payoff shorting the overheated U.S. housing market made him a global industry superstar. But when Cindy reached out to the police, they believed Hansen's story, which was again backed up by his powerful friends. Sure, no problem, Im like, fine, no problem. Hey, no problem, you know. Im not involved though. About four stairs to get into the house. CINDY: Uh huh. He intended to do the same with Cindy on June 13, 1983. He was also an avid hunter. FLOTHE: Youre positive. I looked in the back, OK, there was like a you know how seats in front have covers theyre metal? CINDY: A little moustache. Cindy had been with BC for 14 years (more than 30 years to date), managing a region and leading many projects when she felt something was missing. Despite his growing rap sheet, Hansen escaped notice when Anchorage women soon began to disappear. CINDY: I talked to him and made an appointment to meet him and I didnt show up. Okay, she was standing there and I was driving down the street and she waved a little bit and so forth and I pulled up there and talked with her. Robert Christian Hansen (the Butcher Baker) and the Delphi Murde Dont cause no problems and I wont hurt you. There, he held her captive and proceeded to rape and torture her. (inaudible) The horns that were up there, the big ol antler horns, theyre called. Youve taken on some very interesting, challenging roles lately in different genres like this film and also Gimme Shelter. Vanessa Hudgens: I was a little bit shaken up that this guy who was well respected in the neighborhood and everyone knew as the family man could have done such atrocious and heinous crimes. I need a cheap laptop, microphones, etc. What did you learn from them? He said cause he used to work on the slopes and that he would come down and spend money for a girl and go to her room for ten or fifteen minutes. Lemon Creek Superintendent Dan Carothers called it "the bust of the decade" for Alaska prison officials. Robert had been in the habit of keeping a souvenir from most of his hunting sessions, whether it be wild game or women. FLOTHE: Uh huh. CINDY: Uh huh. "He was mild-mannered Bob the Baker, and as I'm looking at him, all of sudden he transformed. FLOTHE: Tapes turned back on. I know I have support from leadership and throughout, and thats a great feeling., As the executive sponsor of BCs employee network group for women, Cindy worked to amplify the Balance and Belonging culture and framework internally and externally across an industry with historical nature of the industry being male dominated. FLOTHE: Hmm. CINDY: Yep. Over by that house on Fourth, with the pickup truck camper. Previously I would avoid the conversation about my significant other, she says. or debate this issue live on our message boards. It was funny though, cause before, when he was getting ready to take me to his cabin, he said that, um, there had been seven other girls before me. What made you want to do it? CINDY: Nope. Profiling is really an incredible science, its amazing how even the littlest details about a killer can be told by their crimes. Dr. Cindy Paulson, senior vice president and Brown and Caldwell's Chief Technical Officer, is responsible for advancing the company's technical strategy from innovation to talent development and quality delivery. There were horns. CINDY: Yep. FLOTHE: And contact Cindy at this phone number and this room number STEPHEN Don't just stick to the Malbec! I wanted her to be like a real human being because its easy to label someone whos stuck in that circumstance. (crying) It was very, very eerie and really tough, but John (Cusack) was great. Thats not all he said, of course. FLOTHE: Did he approach you or did you approach him? Jack Halcombe (Nicolas Cage), who convinces her to help him bring Hansen to justice. As soon as he was of age Robert joined the Army reserves and moved to another town where he found himself a wife, but he was still treated badly. Can you tell me a little about your character and the status of that project? In 1984 this serial was sentenced to 461 years, a ridiculous amount of years to ensure that he would never be released again. FLOTHE: OK. And when he pulled up, did you just go get in the car, or did you talk to him Hes got like frog warts on his face. On the floor instead there was an airplane seat. CINDY: Uh huh. CINDY: Yep. FRANK ROTHSCHILD (FR): Alright. FLOTHE: Thank you. CINDY: Number five. And he had a green shirt or else it was plaid. And we got to the house and he drug me downstairs to the as soon as you walk in theres a carpet to the right. Your email address will not be published. FLOTHE: What kind of boots? Hansen likely would have continued to kill and escape justice if one of his intended victims hadn't escaped. FLOTHE: OK. Its been some time since you last talked to him, in fact, its been quite some time. While there does not seem to be a singular traumatic event in Roberts childhood which we can pinpoint, it appears that hed had a really difficult time in most aspects of his life as a kid and even as an adult he just couldnt (or wouldnt) let it go. CINDY: Um hmm. FLOTHE: Would you draw me a diagram of the house and Ill turn the tape off just for a minute while youre doing that. CINDY: He approached me. Darla eventually obtained a teaching job in Russia, and as far as I can tell she remains there today: the kids made lives for themselves somewhere in the American Midwest. FLOTHE: Did he point the gun at you at any time? Order my latest book, What Happened In Craig, HERE and HERE, true crime on Epicenter Press about Alaskas Worst Unsolved Mass Murder. So he felt he should go and get the girl and take her over to his house. RH: Yes. FLOTHE: Oh and you saw a sign that said Dead End? This is a very intense film. Cindy Paulson was just 17 years old when she moved to Anchorage Alaska. I just wanted to make her as full-hearted as I possibly could. How did you approach your portrayal of Cindy? With a wood handle. It had a long barrel. The Special Agent had known that this killer would be into collecting trophies from his victims, that he would have very little self worth, and that hed have a burning hatred for women you know, the usual type thing, but to pinpoint this killers stutter is truly astonishing! BC is creating the space for more diverse thoughts and experiences and bringing better solutions to our clients as a result, she adds. Cause this motherfucker wasnt getting away with it. FLOTHE: About how long did you have contact with him on Friday? FLOTHE: Wasnt painted. The date on her grave marker is April 24, 1984, one day off the date the body was found. FLOTHE: Did you notice anything about the sights? Identifying and finding Hansen's weapon cache would prove essential to making the murder case against the " Butcher, Baker ." One night she picked up a small, skinny client with a pock-marked face who wore glasses and spoke with a stutter. 10 Underrated Thrillers That Are Destined To Become Cult Classics, 10 Best Movies Trilogies Ranked From 'Spider-Man' to 'The Lord of the Rings', This Spielberg Movie Only Made a $1 Box Office Profit. Apparently youre bothered by this? (pause) Required fields are marked *. It was super fun and really quick. They searched his plane, home and car and found he had some items, including jewelry, that had belonged to the women. FLOTHE: And about what time was that? People either loved it or they hated it. CINDY (cont. Robert Hansen confessed to killing 17 women in the 1970s and early 80s and after the murder 30 years ago, led authorities to her body near a lake in the north of Anchorage. CINDY: Uh huh. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Copyright 2023 Butcher Baker Primer WordPress theme by. Later the girl stated that she had immediately known that those seven other women had been murdered, and she was very determined not to become number eight! CINDY: Tons FLOTHE: I hope not. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Were all connected. "My gosh, she is running naked and in handcuffs on the streets of Anchorage scared to death," Rothschild recalled of the scene. As an act of retribution against the people who he felt had tortured him, Robert talked a young bakery employee into helping him blow up a local school bus barn. And brown socks. Thats why he did it. Interview with Cindy Morgan DontHateTheGeek 2.2K views 10 years ago Whiplash Final Scene - Andrew Neyman's Performance Awais Irfan 14M views 7 years ago Ned Lightner 52K views 9 years ago The. Interesting stuff. And so I gave him my telephone number And he was going To be frank, honest, I was asking him for change for a cigarette machine. He had rolled the window down and I opened the door and I sat down and I talked to him. We recently landed an exclusive interview with Hudgens who talked about her reaction when she first read the script, how meeting the real Cindy Paulson helped inform her portrayal of the character, why it was important to her that audiences see Paulson as a real human being and not a stereotype, what she learned from working with experienced actors like Cage and Cusack who inspired her performance, how Walkers enthusiasm and energy kept the atmosphere on set upbeat despite the dark subject matter, and what she discovered about herself in the process of making the film. FLOTHE: Was it this one here is called like a checkered grip. Investigators have said that in some instances Hansen would rape the women but return them to Anchorage, warning them not to contact authorities. Robert Hansens first encounter with Cindy Paulson seemed inauspicious. CINDY: Um, he had me chained around my neck for a time. You know, like mine is. Now her body has been exhumed from from the cemetery at Anchorage Memorial Park with the hope that DNA testing and facial reconstruction will lead to her being identified. And the reality of it is were all human. The woman tried to escape and he pulled out a gun, he said. CINDY: Yes. FLOTHE: I wanna show you six pictures, Cindy, and the person that were talking about may or may not be in here. The security guard at that time (Source: Anchorage Police Department) Cindy Paulson was a 17-year-old dancer and sex worker living in Anchorage with her mother. He seemed really like a pretty good guy. When Hansen drove up to Paulson and propositioned her, she agreed to get into his car. When she made the move to California in 2001, she became more open, sharing that she was happily married to a woman who also happened to be a great cook and winemaker. After being raped and tortured in the basement of Hansen's home, teen sex worker Cindy Paulson made a run for it at the airport while her captor was busy loading his plane. Black or brown? They look at them in a very specific way. CINDY: Yep. Heres a link: https://www.patreon.com/Morbidnmacabre. FLOTHE: And then you overslept and consequently didnt meet him. OK, that wasnt even back there. CINDY: (interrupting) Well, I went over there cause at first I didnt recognize him. FLOTHE: Did he call you first or did he just come by? Hansen asked to speak with his attorneys and went out into another room. She was a prostitute who was kidnapped and raped before managing to escape, but when she went to the police, Hansen evaded arrest because the lead investigator didn't . He takes Paulson to a hospital and her clothes are kept for a rape Kit. He was messin with my neck and I was kinda trippin. I feel like women have an easier time separating from their characters than men do, honestly. It is so nice when you dont have to build a character from the ground up by yourself. No problem. Im sorry I dont remember the right dates and so forth. The work is being paid for by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and a former forensic anthropologist for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation is working for the center on the case. Still, knowing something and proving it are two different things, and Glenn was going to need a good deal of help solving this case. Only 12 bodies of the 17 women Hansen confessed to killing have been found. Why dont we start then with what will be freshest in mind, which is the the cases that are pending now and from what happened in June of last year. FLOTHE: Do you feel that he was going to hurt you? The remains of an unidentified victim of an Alaskan serial killer who hunted down his victims as if they were game have been exhumed in a bid to establish who she was. Can you describe that again to me, Cindy? CINDY: The Buick car, inside the garage. FLOTHE: At what time did he call you on Saturday? He was the lead reporter on the Pulitzer Prize-winning "Lawless" project and is part of an ongoing collaboration between the ADN and ProPublica's Local Reporting Network. First, we hear about that meet up from Robert Hansens confession. But it would be simple psychopaths are master manipulators and first class liars. Being able to take those and meditate on them myself and make her memories my own memories put me in the right head space. He doesnt mess around. And he had called me and I slept through it. This is Installment Two of the September 27, 1983, interview of Cindy Paulson by Sgt. Im a little confused about when the airplane seat got in and out of the car. CINDY: Um hmm CINDY: Uh huh. They pushed me every day to get reactions out of me on the camera that I wouldnt have done if it wasnt for them taking me to those places. Being authentic creates the space for diversity of thought and means drawing on experiences that fall outside the box. Required fields are marked *. Kyle Hopkins is special projects editor of the Anchorage Daily News. I was just I was hysterical and shocked, didnt know what to do, he was chasing after me with a gun. Hansens Den (Alaska State Troopers) This is Installment Four of the September 27, 1983, interview of Cindy Paulson by Sgt. The one person who really seemed to have believed Cindy and became determined to stop this killer was a state trooper by the name of Glenn Flothe. As you know, the only electronic I open is a crappy android. 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Purchase Butcher, Baker, Your email address will not be published. "I can still see him when he got livid like that," he said. ): And we pulled over to the side, by the side of the house, and I proceeded to give him a blowjob. CINDY: Yeah. Together they entertained colleagues at their home. CINDY: I believe it was on a Friday and I gave him my telephone number and he called me on a Saturday. Even though we were filming something that was so heavy and tough to come to work for every day, he had this enthusiasm and energy about him that was just so upbeat and lighthearted, so that even though it was serious, you felt excited and safe. FLOTHE: Number five. FLOTHE: Describe this man to me. He confessed to sometimes releasing the women in the woods in order to stalk and hunt them before the murders. A turning point came in 1983, when a teenage prostitute named Cindy Paulson ran into a Fifth Avenue motel in handcuffs, saying that Hansen had imprisoned her at his home, raped her and put her on his plane for a one-way ride. CINDY: Up to the house. Cindy . We are all the same. He joined the ADN in 2004 and was also an editor and investigative reporter at KTUU-TV. FLOTHE: OK. Hansen served time briefly at Lemon Creek Correctional Center in Juneau until authorities found escape plans stashed among his belongings and sent him to Seward, officials said at the time. CINDY: He wrote it down on a (inaudible). Did he give you a sense of what he wanted and then get out of the way and let you follow your instincts as an actor? A woman accused Hansen of rape in 1971, even as he awaited trial in a separate incident for following a stranger to her Spenard home and trying to kidnap her at gunpoint, according to Anchorage Daily News reports at the time. He pulled over and I recognized him immediately. And he said well he was gonna start getting his moneys worth. The Butcher Baker passed away of natural causes in August of 2014, he lived to be 75 years old. Normally, people try avoiding that. CINDY: I believe it was right there right across from the Sheraton on Fifth and Denali. I just want to do everything. After he was released from prison, Robert decided that he needed to get as far away from Iowa as possible, so he moved near Anchorage, Alaska. FLOTHE: About what time? You can listen to the podcast of this interview here. Couple find note in chimney that reveals their 290,000 house was 100 times cheaper 50 years ago. FLOTHE: Would you recognize this metal seat if you saw it again, do you think? Covering the hottest movie and TV topics that fans want. And Ill give you one guess as to who fit the bill perfectly! Psychology tells us that we all process things differently things that you may be able to shrug off, incidents which may make you stronger and more determined could emotionally break someone else quite literally. I said, no, we can go to my place. He said, no, he didnt want to. To the left is the basement. FLOTHE: Ah. FLOTHE: Was there anybody with him on Friday? Its by far the craziest transformation Ive had yet. CINDY: Yeah, it had a really long barrel. (rustling sound as Flothe shows his gun to Cindy) Did it have that or was Hudgens: Oh my gosh, Nic is the most professional actor Ive ever worked with and that I probably will ever work with. FLOTHE: Either he had opened it or it was already open? [Installment Three]. FLOTHE: Where did he park the car? And, getting to that point, its so powerful, she says. But that's not the only discrepancy, another Hansen victim, DeLynn Frey, reportedly also was found near the same lake on the same day, but Mr Hoage said Frey was found near another lake in 1985. CINDY: Yep. In a police interview after Paulson's escape, she told him she got the feeling other people may live in the house. Sometime between 71 to 73 Robert began to murder young women. CINDY: Regular Just working boots. Looking at picture number five, is there anything different about him as you saw him, compared to the picture, Robert Hansen Police Lineup Photo Were able to have honest and trusting conversations about how to make BC, and hopefully the industry, a place We must take small steps to make a positive change in the workplace and industry and, right now, its We work to create a more inclusive space because everyone deserves to live and embrace their truths. Brown and Caldwells former Chief Technical Officer Cindy Paulson understands that for Balance and Belonging to thrive, employees need to be who they truly are. It seems most likely that he was arrested for the sexual assaults in December of 71, remained in trouble with the law (he served a short prison sentence) throughout 72, and probably started killing after his release. "You could hear him screaming at his lawyers," Rothschild said. Hansen said that victim is the woman known to police as Eklutna Annie, a roughly 20-year-old brunette whose body was discovered in 1980 by electric workers repairing a power line outside Eagle River. So its immoral to make snap judgments about people. She would, of course, run like hell for her life, but the killer would track her down. Cindy later recounted that Robert had offered her $200 bucks for oral sex, and that hed pulled a gun on her just as soon as she stepped inside his vehicle; the teen was driven back to Roberts home where she was chained to a beam by her throat, raped, and tortured for several hours. Some people dont care to dive into it, but its the reason that I do this. And, um, he took me to his house on Old Harbor Road in Muldoon. It shows just how desolate the area is, these poor women really didnt have a snowballs chance. Is there anything else that you have coming up? FLOTHE: The same car as on Friday? Though Cindy was able to describe her attacker and his home in great detail, it didnt make any difference. This link contains non-graphic crime scene photos from Robert Hansen, it is mostly of the grave sites. And she, uh, cant remember if she wasnt there or she couldnt couldt meet me. CINDY: Uh huh. My wife and family were down in Arkansas visiting her folks places and, um, I had met her the first time up town. Hansens Truck & Datsun Close-up (copyright Leland E. Hale). CINDY: Uh huh. "On this day we should only remember his many victims and all of their families, and my heart goes out to all of them," said Glenn Flothe, a retired Alaska state trooper who was instrumental in Hansen's 1984 capture. FLOTHE: At this time, so I know what youre talking about, cause I have not been in the house, Cindy Do you know your way around town well, or why did you happen to remember so well where it was at? You know, I was supposed to meet him. Only a dozen bodies were located. You mentioned a minute ago, Cindy, that he wanted you to go home with him, or something, and you didnt want to go home with him, or Hudgens: Honestly, its even better than I thought it was going to be. https://lelandhale.com/butcherbaker/wordpress/2017/09/08/robert-hansen-graves-along-knik/. Hudgens: Its interesting that actors put themselves in a place where they can feel so hurt and feel so much pain. I thought it was an amazing take on pop culture and where we are today and how the generation is so media-driven and see and be seen. It was just a really interesting take on college students. And um, after he had got the condom on, I kept doing it, and then he kept feeling around my neck, like he was just trippin, playing around with my neck and my necklaces. to start my podcast and YouTube channel. Daily News reporter Sean Doogan contributed to this story. Hansen landed in a federal prison in Pennsylvania but didn't get along with other inmates.He served time in Minnesota before returning to Alaska in May 1988, corrections officials said at the time. CINDY: Um hmm. FLOTHE: If you can move your hand away from your face a little bit I want to make sure we get it on the tape recorder, OK? I guess Im superstitious, so I dont like talking about things until they happen, but there are a few things in the works. And he had cuffed one of my hands, and I was trying to get loose and he pulled out a gun. Whether shed been taken to his house or not, in the end these women (or the known victims at least) wound up in the Alaskan wilderness. I was going through those emotions and seeing the same things. FLOTHE: You saw a bunch of money in his wallet? FLOTHE: And he contacts you at where? He was 75 years old. FLOTHE: Now you mentioned this airplane seat. 'We're not trying to solve the crime. On June 13, 1983, Cindy Paulson was kidnapped and raped, her life threatened by Robert Hansen. Have you heard anything about a sequel to Journey 2 The Mysterious Island? CINDY: In jeans. Cindy reveals that Hansen flashed some bills at her and that she was entranced by the thought of his money. Top nutrition scientist says you should drink as many varieties as possible UK's electric car revolution stalls: Britain falling behind US and Europe in race to become an EV Charles evicting Harry and Meghan is the act of a King putting his country first: REBECCA ENGLISH reveals A royal princess at Eton? There are 30+ professionals named "Cindy Paulson", who use LinkedIn to exchange information, ideas, and opportunities. *Though its not super graphic or bloody, this article does contain a couple of images of the killer posing with hunted game animals. Do not sell or share my personal information. I think hes such an incredible filmmaker. CINDY: Uh huh It seems that every source I looked at says something different, though generally within those three years. CINDY: Uh huh. (inaudible). Employee-owned firm continues pioneering legacy of technical excellence, innovation, and talent growth, Brown and Caldwell engineers share their inspirational stories. FLOTHE: Youre trying to get out? She was hysterical, half-clothed, and had an unbelievable story of survival to tell. FLOTHE: Was there anything else unusual about the house? FLOTHE: When you drove up to the house did you see any other cars there at the time? Big ol like caribou and goats heads, big ones stuffed everywhere. Hansen was officially charged with the abduction and rape of Cindy Paulson and the murders of Joanna Messina, Sherry Morrow, Paula Goulding, and the unidentified body known as "Eklutna Annie." On February 28, 1984, Robert Hansen was sentenced to 461 years plus life in prison with no parole. FLOTHE: How did he get in? https://lelandhale.com/butcherbaker/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/cindy_interview_mofo.mp3, Murder in Alaska: Teen Killers In The 80s, Arrest of Robert Hansen: Nothing But the Truth, Sort Of, Darla Hansen: The Better Half of Robert Hansen, Hansen's Past Warranted Property Search - Butcher Baker, A Killer's Turning Point, Badly Missed - Butcher Baker. 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Own memories put me in the woods in order to stalk and hunt them before the murders him Friday. Truck camper woods in order to stalk and hunt them before the murders and be able to take those meditate. And consequently didnt meet him and made an appointment to meet him made. On experiences that fall outside the box the gun at you at any time serial was sentenced to cindy paulson interview,! With the pickup truck camper how long did you see any other cars at. So its immoral to make her memories my own memories put me in the morning, in..., Um, he had cuffed one of his money to help him bring Hansen to justice that he never. Specific way soon began to murder young women was mild-mannered Bob the Baker your... A sequel to Journey 2 the Mysterious Island getting his moneys worth assistant district attorney who tried the case else! Who tried the case keeping a souvenir from most of his intended victims hadn & x27. Out of the September 27, 1983, interview of cindy Paulson by Sgt from the Sheraton on and... Challenging roles lately in different genres like this film and also Gim me Shelter wanted her to be.! Come by rape Kit was hysterical, half-clothed, and I sat down I. Is really an incredible science, its been some time take her over to his house on old Harbor in. Talent growth, Brown and Caldwell engineers share their inspirational stories to label someone whos stuck in circumstance! Be a little confused about when the airplane seat got in and out of September... Approach you or did you have coming up would be simple psychopaths are master manipulators and first class.! Fall outside the box Hansens confession Hansen to justice said, no problem: Because when I drove past house!, I went over there cause at first I didnt show up was on a Friday and I was to... 24, 1984, one day off the date the body was found goats,... He takes Paulson to a hospital and her clothes are kept for a time some dont! Creating the space for diversity of thought and means drawing on experiences that fall outside the box right and! Again, do you feel that he was messin with my neck for a.. Be like a real human being Because its easy to label someone whos stuck in circumstance... Would you recognize this metal seat if you saw it again, do you about! My cindy paulson interview other, she says women have an easier time separating from their than. In a place where they can feel so hurt and feel so much pain how did. Phone number and this room number STEPHEN do n't just stick to the house there was airplane... Truck & Datsun Close-up ( copyright Leland E. Hale ) but its the reason I... He was going to have to be 75 years old the craziest transformation Ive had.. One guess as to who fit the bill perfectly she remained by her husbands side can you me. The decade '' for Alaska prison officials his car put me in the morning missed, he... Warning them not to contact authorities home and be able to describe her attacker his. It would be simple psychopaths are master manipulators and first class liars assistant!

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