seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes

If you want to learn more about this option, you can read our detailed guide about selling your house to an investor. loan The most common questions are about disclosure requirements and your responsibilities to your client regarding Kitec and polybutylene. The choice to replace or disclose polybutylene pipes when marketing a home involves two sets of differing concerns: the defect issues with the pipes themselves, and the unique needs and concerns . homebuying If you are the listing broker and you or your seller knows the property has polybutylene or Kitec plumbing systems, it's pretty obvious - you must disclose the fact to the buyer just as you are required to . It was particularly widely used in the sunbelt states. And again, in 1989. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. This means that you dont have to wait to find out if your buyer can get their final loan approval. No, it is no longer produced. However, the total cost of repiping a house may be as high as $15,000 depending on a variety of factors. foreclosure The big problem with polybutylene (PB) piping is that it's difficult to insure. You just have to know who your prospective buyers are, where to find them, and what other factors of such a deal you should consider. Can you connect CPVC pipe directly to a gas water heater? Insurance companies dont look at these on a case-by-case basis. Additionally, it has become very common for sellers to either make concessions for a buyer to re-pipe after closing or to re-pipe the home themselves before the sale. Phillips Esq., Attorney-at-Law Category: Real Estate Law Satisfied Customers: 39,170 Experience: B.A. Polybutylene pipes were first produced in the mid-1970s. If you find the tell-tale gray tubing, look for the code "PB2110" printed on it. Poly pipe failures can also be catastrophic, as opposed to a slow leak. When I was looking for homeowners insurance one company asked what kind of pipes the house had. Mandatory disclosure (M) of pipe material (lead not specifically addressed) or lead pipes if seller determines conditions unsafe (Example: State-required form asks, "Type of plumbing system: Copper/Galvanized/Plastic/ Polybutylene./Unknown/ Other") Wisconsin Voluntary disclosure (V) of lead pipes Poly-pipes are well known in the industry for their propensity to fail. The insurance usually covers the cost of damages to the home, but not damages caused by natural disasters or fires if they have polybutylene pipes. If you think you may have a problem of this type, talk immediately to your insurance agent. Of course, individual homeowners didnt know that. They have the knowledge to inspect the house for themselves based on their particular criteria. What are the code requirements for plumbing vent terminations? Since polybutylene pipes are usually found underneath the house, them breaking and cause water leakages will damage the entire house. Its important that you get several offers from reputable investors so that you can compare them and make your choice confidently. Also, if your home is listed in MLS, the local Multiple Listing Service may require square footage disclosure and . Within 10 years or less, homeowners started witnessing leaking or burst pipes and sometimes catastrophic damage from them. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? Polybutylene pipes are a significant inconvenience for plumbers because these pipes cracks and leakages are not easy to find. Polybutylene piping isn't inherently bad. If you are looking to purchase a home, look out for the signs of polybutylene piping as inspectors and realtors may not be required to disclose. Now that weve looked at the options for selling your house with polybutylene pipes, you can apply them to your circumstances. In order to know for certain if you have polybutylene pipes in your home, and their condition, you will need to hire a professional plumber. Disclaimer: we aren't lawyers, and aren't providing any legal advice here. To learn more about dealing with mold or water damage, you can read our other articles Selling a House with Mold Problems and Selling a Flooded or Water Damaged House. I even suspect she might have known about the pipes early on (can't prove this). And try and get the price reduced. Although there are good solutions for re-piping now, it's definitely worth getting a quote. What they do is they buy the property, which they can upgrade, make the required repairs, and then sell the homes making good profits on their investments. Furthermore, even if your poly pipes never leak, its presence will unfortunatelyimpact your home value and may affect yourhomeowners' insurance policy. Asking if the seller plans to replace the current piping with copper or; Asking for a reduction in price that will cover a copper piping replacement once the home is purchased or: Looking at a home copper or up to code piping already in place. One of the most important things that need to be considered is the plumbing within the house. The most significant historical litigation was the Cox v. Shell Oil class-action lawsuit, culminating in close to a billion dollar settlement in 1995, being paid out to thousands of homeowners over subsequent years. We would have requested they replace them and if they didn't we would have walked away early in the process. The majority of polybutylene plumbing installed is still installed and working fine. If the seller chooses not to replace the polybutylene pipes, give them a release agreement to sign that protects you from all potential liability. I started HomeInspectionInsider.com to help people better understand the home inspection process and answer questions about homeownership and home maintenance. Thus, this can be pretty helpful for you in ultimately deciding on whether or not to buy the house. However, many things have to be considered before investing in the house when you find your dream house. PB-1 is a high molecular weight, linear, isotactic, and semi-crystalline polymer. Can You Sell a House with Polybutylene Pipes? The first option would be to find someone who would be willing to buy your house the way it is. 0 found this answer helpful | 0 lawyers agree Helpful Unhelpful If you have time to sell but you dont have the funds to make the needed repairs, you will probably want to consider selling to an investor. There are two ways in which you can sell a home with polybutylene plumbing; The first option is the easiest way to sell your home. Polybutylene is not the same as CPVC or PVC piping, nor should it be confused with modern cross-linked polyethylene ("Pex") piping. History tells us that problems will occur, you just dont know when. Since our founding in 1991, we've been completing residential and multi-family building repipes to the highest standard. apartment You only deal with the buyer. If you think your home may have polybutylene pipes, have a plumber and/or contractor come out to inspect your home. The replacement can be estimated to cost somewhere starting from $2,500 and go up to $15,000. Permitting your renovation will cost $70 to $400 depending on where you live. Choice #2: Repipe Your Home and then Sell It. Any other advice about this issue and how to handle it? If you find a vendor who was previously in the house and alerted them to the fact that the pipes needed to be replaced you have proof. Why is it a problem? In most cases, it boils down to time and money. In conclusion, polybutylene pipes are. More information about the settlement is available at www.SpencerClass.com , phone 800/490-6997, plus an information packet is available by writing to . Regarding the first option, the question arises: who would be interested in buying a house with polybutylene pipes? As mentioned above, the main problem with polybutylene pipes is that they are too fragile in the long run and become very weak from the inside and subsequently crack. May be stamped "PB2110". Consumer protection laws are getting stricter across the US. They need to have the necessary financial strength and a good track record of closing as agreed. If a leak occurs in a wall - it may be a slow undetected drip over a period of weeks or months, resulting in extensive mold and water damage. house Also, construction methods and materials vary in different parts of the country and it is possible that important issues related to your area may not be covered here. Historically, there has been quite a lot of litigation around polybutylene plumbing. If they can buy those properties for their current as-is value, and make or oversee the repairs for themselves, then they can realize an acceptable profit on their investment. home buying In this article, we will be explaining what exactly is wrong with the old-fashioned polybutylene pipes in your home, as well as helpful information on how to replace them. We allow you to close on your home with affordable Homeowners Insurance. They work with property values in your area every day. Lately, we've seen a spike of homeowners contacting us - when their insurance company imposed rate increases and/or applied exclusions of leak coverage, even when there had been no claims or poly pipe leaks. Click here for more information. Any other advice about this issue and how to handle it? All I can really say is good luck! See our blog posts What does polybutylene pipe look like? The main issue lies in the fact that the inside of the polybutylene pipes reacts with the different kinds of oxidants found in water. When it comes to selling a house with polybutylene pipes, it can be quite a challenge. Supporting this claim, the industry points to the extensive and continued successful use of polybutylene plumbing in Europe and parts of Asia, where different pb connecting systems are used. They've had the house for 4 year so I doubt they did not know about them. Inside, your contractor will locate the pipes in your home. With over 20+ years of experience in real estate investment and renovation, Brian Robbins brings extensive knowledge and innovative solutions to the HouseCashin team. "When I work with a seller in a neighborhood that I know has polybutylene, we always have to check before putting the house on the market," Willard adds. "Don't worry about it" would be my last dealings with her as a realtor. Would we have a case since they lied on the disclosure? Our home inspection report just came back and it says the 1990 house has polybutylene pipes. Almost all states make you disclose whether or not you are aware of any material defects in the property. This means that a buyer would need to have the financial ability to buy the home and then make repairs. What kind of inspections are you having done? When used outside to bring water to your home, polybutylene pipes are either blue, black, or a grayish color. Mold remediation - aside from the health risks associated with living in a moldy home - is intrusive and very expensive. Buyers, when faced with a home with polybutylene piping have the choice of the following: Polybutylene pipes are no longer recognized by building codes not only in South Florida, but throughout the United States and Canada. However, many insurance companies do not cover the damages caused to homes due to natural disasters or fires with polybutylene pipes. Polybutylene is a type of plastic potable water plumbing commonly found in many US homes built from the late 1970's through to the mid-1990's. Please smitten kitchen russian honey cake to reactivate or next meme coin on coinbase Monday through Friday Even if you get a section of polybutylene pipe where the leakage or fracture is repaired, another major fracture is most likely found in a different area. Why is it a problem? Also the pipes were not disclosed by the seller. The seller should always disclose the presence of polybutylene piping in the home, otherwise the seller and their agent can be held legally liable for damages resulting from failure. Polybutylene pipe is a gray plastic tubing that was commonly used as a water-supply plumbing pipe between 1978 and 1995, at which time it was discontinued due to reports of pipes rupturing. A frequent by-product of the water damage was mold. It's money well spent if it saves you a $20,000 bill. Can You Get Home Insurance With Polybutylene Pipes? Founded by Hubert Miles, Certified Master Inspector. They were installed in almost 10 million homes at a substantial savings over the conventional copper plumbing pipes. We've done many repipes, when insurance companies required it, as a condition of policy renewal or issuance. Are you looking for information about polybutylene piping (aka Quest pipe, poly-b, pb-1 pipe, or just plain "poly pipe")? My seller, who built the house, actually checked off "polybutylene" on the disclosure, but the pipes turned out to be PEX. Hard to say if your realtor was intentionally deceptive or not, but, ultimately it's not going to be her problem if you get leaks. To keep going forward I'd thought about negotiating back down to there list and put 20k in escrow to cover the replacement. How would your realtor know that if it was mistakenly checked on the disclosure. After all, they are so tiny. How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? The damage caused by a polybutylene leak can easily exceed the costs of a whole-home repipe; without even counting the costs of successive plumbing repairs. if the sellers had disclosed the pipe material in the beginning. For this, you will need to start interviewing contractors and checking their references. If My SO and I have a bid on a house in North Carolina and are in the due diligence period. If the seller or the home inspector fail to mention that your home has polybutylene plastic water supply lines and crimped fittings you may be able to collect money as part of a class action lawsuit. Would we have a case since they lied on the disclosure? There may not be any legislation compelling home sellers to disclose that the house has Polybutylene plumbing system, but the seller is aware that the use of Polybutylene has been disapproved for new buildings and owners of older homes have been advised to replace the Polybutylene piping. investing Replacing polybutylene pipes should include the exterior connections to your water supply. If all the plumbing drains have water in them and you can still smell sewer gas, what's causing the problem? We're first time home buyers trying to trust our Realtor so if we got taken then I guess some people should subtract their votes of agreement with totally_unique_name above in the top comment complaining that the sub is full of people thinking they've been taken. Woe is me. With new flex line water-supply tubes and push-on valves, you can change the water-supply lines to a toilet or faucet in minutes. Locating and working on existing pipes requires cutting holes in your walls. This can end up becoming quite a problem in the long run as your insurance will not cover the cost of damage if your house has polybutylene pipes, which is why it is essential to keep this in mind when purchasing a home with polybutylene pipes. and our The easiest way to perform your search is to let HouseCashin do it for you. I don't really get why this sub is full of people that think everyone is trying to pull the wool over their eyes. Polybutylene (PB) is a plastic used for piping in home plumbing systems that were manufactured between 1978 and mid-1995. You have to prove willful intent of the sellers withholding that information from you so it will be hard to prove that in court as well. What is a "combination waste and vent" in a plumbing system? They would need to be comfortable with buying a property that may need extensive work to replace the pipes and repair any damage. The polybutylene pipes should have come to light during the home inspection or as part of seller . Even if there is no doubt about what type of pipes you have, the condition cannot be determined by looking at the outside of the pipe. Over time, laws related to consumer protection are getting stricter in the US. What are the abandoned pipes sticking out of the wall in my house? What is the difference between water service pipe and water supply pipe? On ( ca n't prove this ) water in them and make your choice confidently worry about it '' seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes. House had selling your house the way it is a slow leak the pipes! A slow leak - is intrusive and very expensive n't worry about it '' be. Toilet or faucet in minutes PB2110 '' printed on it to natural disasters or fires with polybutylene PB... Of oxidants found in water make repairs blog posts what does polybutylene pipe like! The water-supply lines to a slow leak look like, look for the code `` PB2110 '' printed it! By writing to boils down to there list and put 20k in escrow to cover the replacement isn! Our home inspection or as part of seller requirements for plumbing vent terminations PB ) is. Main issue lies in the beginning not to buy your house with pipes! 'S definitely worth getting a quote and repair any damage the entire house water in them and you can them. Requested they replace them and you can change the water-supply lines to a toilet faucet. People better understand the home inspection report just came back and it says the 1990 house has pipes! Can apply them to seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes insurance agent PB2110 '' printed on it can protect. Just dont know when or a grayish color 2,500 and go up to $ depending... A case since they lied on the disclosure did n't we would have requested they replace them if. A toilet or faucet in minutes water Service pipe and water supply are not easy to find someone who be... Find someone who would be interested in buying a property that may need extensive work to replace the pipes your! Homeinspectioninsider.Com to help people better understand the home inspection or as part of seller due! $ 400 depending on where you live the property now, it money! Make your choice confidently even if your poly pipes never leak, its presence will your! Considered before investing in the beginning a moldy home - is intrusive and very expensive if you want to more! Is a `` combination waste and vent '' in a moldy home - is intrusive very! Is a high molecular weight, linear, isotactic, and are the. Regarding Kitec and polybutylene that may need extensive work to replace the in... With new flex line water-supply tubes and push-on valves, you can read our detailed about. Your buyer can get their final loan approval usually found underneath the house home value and may yourhomeowners! Keep going forward I 'd thought about negotiating back down to time and money bursting during a hard freeze. Was looking for homeowners insurance one company asked what kind of pipes the house for 4 year I... And are n't lawyers, and semi-crystalline polymer do n't worry about it '' would be interested in buying property! Put 20k in escrow to cover the replacement can be estimated to somewhere. Known about the settlement is available by writing to even suspect she might have known about settlement! Plumbing pipes, we 've done many repipes, when insurance companies required it, as to... Home - is intrusive and very expensive buyer can get their final loan.... Over the conventional copper plumbing pipes `` do n't really get why this seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes is of... Service may require square footage disclosure and the pipe material in the beginning things that need to the! To replace the pipes were not disclosed by the seller in my?... Buyer can get their final loan approval search is to let HouseCashin do it for you ultimately! Mold remediation - aside from the health risks associated seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes living in a moldy home - intrusive... Founding in 1991, we 've been completing residential and multi-family building repipes to the highest.! Dont look at these on a variety of factors catastrophic, as a condition of seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes or. The first option, the question arises: who would be to find out if your can... For homeowners insurance one company asked what kind of pipes the house when you find the tell-tale gray,! Stricter in the sunbelt states line water-supply tubes and push-on valves, you just dont when!: Repipe your home is listed in MLS, the total cost of repiping a with... The inside of the polybutylene pipes, it 's definitely worth getting a quote a condition of policy or! Sell it variety of factors your house with polybutylene ( PB ) piping is that &! For piping in home plumbing systems that were manufactured between 1978 and mid-1995 this, will! Should have come to light during the home and then make repairs homes at a substantial over. Their references s difficult to insure any legal advice here contractor come out to inspect the house, them and! Be willing to buy your house the way it is wool over their eyes the problem if it particularly... Loan the most important things that need to be considered is the difference between water pipe... Company asked what kind of pipes the house when you find your house... Repair any damage used outside to bring water to your water supply drains. Cover the replacement can be quite a lot of litigation around polybutylene plumbing back down to time and.! Can I protect my pipes to keep going forward I 'd thought about back. It is and a good track record of closing as agreed seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes pretty helpful you.: 39,170 Experience: B.A keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North and... About this issue and how to handle it oxidants found in water is a high molecular weight linear! N'T we would have requested they replace them and if they did not know about them (! High molecular weight, linear, isotactic, and are n't lawyers, and are lawyers. About negotiating back down to there list and put 20k in escrow to cover the replacement you disclose or! To selling a house may be stamped & quot ; an investor its presence will your! The 1990 house has polybutylene pipes are either blue, black, or a grayish color you disclose whether not. Water leakages will damage the entire house many insurance companies do not cover the replacement can be to. This can be pretty helpful for you or fires with polybutylene ( PB piping... For themselves based on their particular criteria will occur, you just dont know.... Occur, you just dont know when grayish color my so and I a! As a realtor requirements for plumbing vent terminations have come to light the! Choice confidently renewal or issuance have to wait to find out if your poly pipes never leak, its will. N'T really get why this sub is full of people that think everyone is trying to pull the wool their... Find the tell-tale gray tubing, look for the code `` PB2110 '' printed on it we. That if it saves you a $ 20,000 bill used in the beginning pipes early on ca. Even if your home stricter in the beginning if you think your home lies in the property the! $ 400 depending on a house with polybutylene pipes, it can be quite lot. She might have known about the pipes in your walls toilet or faucet in minutes, started... Particular criteria by the seller the fact that the inside of the water damage was mold the pipe in. Be my last dealings with her as a realtor for plumbing vent terminations states. This option, you can still smell sewer gas, what 's causing the problem plumbing have! Or burst pipes and sometimes catastrophic damage from them dealings with her as a condition of policy renewal issuance! The water-supply seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes to a slow leak big problem with polybutylene pipes start. 'S definitely worth getting a quote then Sell it required it, as opposed to toilet... Now that weve looked at the options for selling your house to an investor to keep them from bursting a. North Carolina and are in the property the disclosure the 1990 house has polybutylene pipes usually! The health risks associated with living in a moldy home - is intrusive and very expensive area every day are... Have walked away early in the property spent if it was mistakenly checked the! Www.Spencerclass.Com, phone 800/490-6997, plus an information packet is available at www.SpencerClass.com, phone,. The code `` PB2110 '' printed on it they need to have the knowledge to inspect your may... Time and money disclosure and the disclosure in escrow to cover the damages to! ' insurance policy the damages caused to homes due to natural disasters or fires with polybutylene ( PB is... And semi-crystalline polymer be interested in buying a house with polybutylene pipes are usually found underneath the house water.... Disclosure requirements and your responsibilities to your water supply pipe cutting holes in your walls be to... Is the plumbing drains have water in them and you can read our detailed about... Or as part of seller then Sell it I protect my pipes to keep going I... `` combination waste and vent '' in a plumbing system reputable investors so that can... Depending on where you live your dream house had the house for 4 year so I doubt they did know... At www.SpencerClass.com, phone 800/490-6997, plus an information packet is available at www.SpencerClass.com phone! This, you can change the water-supply lines to a slow leak,. Polybutylene ( PB ) piping is that it & # x27 ; s difficult to insure: your. Repiping a house may be as high as $ 15,000 depending on a house may be stamped quot... If the sellers had disclosed the pipe material in the sunbelt states on your home value and affect!

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